Comments on: Creating Conditions and Contexts http://velocityvortx.wordpress.com/2007/11/10/creating-conditions-and-contexts/ learnings... Sat, 19 Jul 2008 07:46:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU By: Hermi http://velocityvortx.wordpress.com/2007/11/10/creating-conditions-and-contexts/#comment-3506 Hermi Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:59:52 +0000 http://velocityvortx.wordpress.com/2007/11/10/creating-conditions-and-contexts/#comment-3506 You said, "create context, coach application and model the way." If I could challenge the aspect of modeling. As someone who has thought numerous times about leaving church, I don't, because I know it won't help. God is processing me, like I need to stay on the pottery wheel. The hardness means God is using that church and that circumstance to get me closer to Him somehow. However, the thing I continually see a need for is modeling like you said. Discipleship is needed in all churches, and creating context is big part of that, so it coaching but there seems to be need for more modeling. What about when God transforms our leaders lives, even before our eyes? Anyone I've ever lead has looked for me to model what it is I'm talking about with my life. I don't always do a good job. I am learning though, being processed. Just even allowing others to see me get processed can be great leadership sometimes, not to mention humbling. Nobody has it all together. It's cool to see the Holy Spirit working on someone sometimes. It nice to see the evidence of the Holy Spirit's work on a leader. It's real, makes you want to stick around because maybe you'll catch some. You said, “create context, coach application and model the way.” If I could challenge the aspect of modeling. As someone who has thought numerous times about leaving church, I don’t, because I know it won’t help. God is processing me, like I need to stay on the pottery wheel. The hardness means God is using that church and that circumstance to get me closer to Him somehow. However, the thing I continually see a need for is modeling like you said. Discipleship is needed in all churches, and creating context is big part of that, so it coaching but there seems to be need for more modeling. What about when God transforms our leaders lives, even before our eyes? Anyone I’ve ever lead has looked for me to model what it is I’m talking about with my life. I don’t always do a good job. I am learning though, being processed. Just even allowing others to see me get processed can be great leadership sometimes, not to mention humbling. Nobody has it all together. It’s cool to see the Holy Spirit working on someone sometimes. It nice to see the evidence of the Holy Spirit’s work on a leader. It’s real, makes you want to stick around because maybe you’ll catch some.

]]> By: edgar http://velocityvortx.wordpress.com/2007/11/10/creating-conditions-and-contexts/#comment-3469 edgar Sun, 11 Nov 2007 13:49:22 +0000 http://velocityvortx.wordpress.com/2007/11/10/creating-conditions-and-contexts/#comment-3469 Great stuff, Ron. Managing ethos is a primary challenge of the leader-pastor. Being at home with my role as mediator and not as the 'healer' is a clear challenge that has been amplified by the church's expectations of its leaders. In creating containers of possibility where transformation can take place, exposure is important and risky. Hence, the importance of managing and modeling ethos. I guess transformation IS still the work of the Spirit. Walter Brueggemann, (The Word that Redescribes the World) cites Jacob Neusner who concludes Jews in practicing Sabbath, kosher, circumcision, etc. do so "in order that they may everyday imagine that they are Jews." I never thought that spiritual disciplines like prayer and meditation and so on would serve a as reminder that I am dependent on Christ and the work I do is ultimately his work. Whether it is teaching or reaching out to someone or asking Jesus to heal, it is not about me. That's comforting. Great stuff, Ron. Managing ethos is a primary challenge of the leader-pastor. Being at home with my role as mediator and not as the ‘healer’ is a clear challenge that has been amplified by the church’s expectations of its leaders. In creating containers of possibility where transformation can take place, exposure is important and risky. Hence, the importance of managing and modeling ethos. I guess transformation IS still the work of the Spirit. Walter Brueggemann, (The Word that Redescribes the World) cites Jacob Neusner who concludes Jews in practicing Sabbath, kosher, circumcision, etc. do so “in order that they may everyday imagine that they are Jews.” I never thought that spiritual disciplines like prayer and meditation and so on would serve a as reminder that I am dependent on Christ and the work I do is ultimately his work. Whether it is teaching or reaching out to someone or asking Jesus to heal, it is not about me. That’s comforting.

]]> By: Cathy H http://velocityvortx.wordpress.com/2007/11/10/creating-conditions-and-contexts/#comment-3460 Cathy H Sat, 10 Nov 2007 23:41:45 +0000 http://velocityvortx.wordpress.com/2007/11/10/creating-conditions-and-contexts/#comment-3460 Sometimes timing makes things more powerful. Your post popped up on my RSS feed less than a half hour after my husband and I were having a similar conversation. We were discussing the frustration with our inability to impact others' lives. If Jesus came to "bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners," then why am I so completely powerless to do the same in the lives of those around me? I can pray for people. Show love to them. But I usually have no ability to truly alleviate suffering (emotional or physical) on a long-term basis or to make any immediate and lasting changes on the complexities of living in a fallen, hurting world. It deeply saddened me yesterday to pick up the Dallas Observer and read about the positive results of theta healing. But what am I supposed to do? If I were to call the writer up and invite her to church and have the elders pray over her, would that work? In my experience of Christianity, I haven't seen that type of physical healing. Worse, as I look at the very difficult circumstances of some of my friends, I find myself desperately wanting to be able to deliver the emotional equivalent of "rise up and walk," but I don't seem to have that power. I generally prefer it when my blog posts wrap up with something witty or thoughtfully compelling, but I don't have it this time. This conversation is one I'm still grappling with... Sometimes timing makes things more powerful. Your post popped up on my RSS feed less than a half hour after my husband and I were having a similar conversation.

We were discussing the frustration with our inability to impact others’ lives. If Jesus came to “bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,” then why am I so completely powerless to do the same in the lives of those around me?

I can pray for people. Show love to them. But I usually have no ability to truly alleviate suffering (emotional or physical) on a long-term basis or to make any immediate and lasting changes on the complexities of living in a fallen, hurting world.

It deeply saddened me yesterday to pick up the Dallas Observer and read about the positive results of theta healing. But what am I supposed to do? If I were to call the writer up and invite her to church and have the elders pray over her, would that work? In my experience of Christianity, I haven’t seen that type of physical healing. Worse, as I look at the very difficult circumstances of some of my friends, I find myself desperately wanting to be able to deliver the emotional equivalent of “rise up and walk,” but I don’t seem to have that power.

I generally prefer it when my blog posts wrap up with something witty or thoughtfully compelling, but I don’t have it this time. This conversation is one I’m still grappling with…

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